The Ethereum Classic Show #19, Interview with Edilson Osorio Jr, CEO of OriginalMy

[Music]it's another episode of the ethereum classic show we're at the emerald city the immutablefortress where the ethereum core is always greener than the other side and the law of the land is codetoday we've got elson osorio jr ceo of original my everyone need to see kingdom knows youvery well it's a pleasure to have you oh thank you very much thank you for the invitationand to me it's a big pleasure being here and talking to you and let's have an interesting chat let's seewhat's happened yeah thanks man and i love your space where are you based right now yeah we are basically in estonia intallinn i am a very old hub for startups over hereand this place is my office and not not just my office but it's a it's a bigplace and yeah this meeting room is pretty interesting the back is the likethey have some some some kind of auditorium over there and it's a beautiful placeand it's pretty empty right now because every weekend week and weekends we have events overhere and because of cove 19 they restricted a lot events and thenmeetings and even visitors so the place is pretty quietmore than i like well it's good for an interview right yeah um last time we spoke first of all iCongratulationswant to say congratulations i know that you won the uh that huge uh investors uhconference so what was it called the annual investment meeting in dubai exactly exactly we won as a cyber thethe best the world champion on cyber security over thereum because of like privacy data protection something like thatand the interesting thing they ran nationals between among like a hundred countriesand each country elected just one startup we participate in the competition on a pitch competitionwe pass it in front of all the estonian startups over here then we went to the finals in uh inin dubai and we got the prize and we won everything over there it wasamazing that's a big congratulations and and correct me if i'm wrong this wasn't blockchain companies wereyou like one of the only blockchain the only blockchain company in thefinals yes the only blockchain company in the finals and what's incredible about that is itCompetitionsshows that you know it's not we're not a place where adapts are trying to showusefulness i mean you're beating you know the non-blockchain ones toonon-blockchain companies yeah and another interesting thing that happened just afterwe participated on a local probably you don't know about that because we didn't announce yetwe participated on a local competition in fukuoka in japan and they theylike they called startup estonia to invite some some startups over here they sent me anemail i applied then the government okay you can participate you thinkyou are good then we went to the same finals then we went to the finalslike between just japanese companies we were two foreign years but the other one waswas from i think thailand so a from outside asiawe were the only one company participating we didn't win okay that that's okay andi think you're expecting to win all the time since you've won so many times now yeah yeah probably i'm used to right nowbut no no i'm kidding and but yeah it was a strong competition and it was amazing and other thing thatjust happened yesterday estonia nominated usas one of the best digital solutions they have over hereand for for the world like world sums awards is the one of thebiggest competition among uh startups and we went to thesame finals and yesterday i received the email we are shortlisted to the finals now in december they willdefine the the the winners of the this competition as well it to us fororiginal my it's a big thing yeah yeah i mean it's also a big thing for blockchain as wellDigital Governanceto to you know to have to have solutions winning left and right especially when you know there's all this belief thatyou know it's still early that these solutions haven't found themselves and here you are proving everyone wrong especially in a digital governance kindof setting like estonia is known for already having some sort of digital governance likee-governance right yeah is the like the most advancedadvanced digital government in the world 99 of the the services the publicservices over here are digital wow one example if you get the card for the public transportationyou just register with your id i i did it you register with your id andyou can take a bus you have the free bus in like it wasthree minutes three minutes from the registration to taking the buzz it was all right running in the system it was availableinformation you want to take a bus what do you need to show yeah but i just showed the car to themachine and i can take a bus for free because for citizens and and residents it's afree public transportation in in estonia and and of course i mean it removes soDigital Servicesmany costs that's why they can offer so many services for free exactly in estonia they really believedigital services can reduce costs for the government they they use that the digital servicesbecause it's good for the government they they reduce the bureaucracy they reduce thenumber of workers they and work hours and they reduce costs and it reflectsstraight to the to the citizens to the population yeah and and i remember that you know weWinning Awardsspoke two years ago it was fantastic and you were still winning awards then so it's weirdhow you're constantly just winning them all the time um i know that in brazil you hadworked with them on voting now that was two years ago you've continued to win thesecompetitions is it because you're adding new innovations newsolutions or is it at the same time people are starting to accept the dapps and give them more respecti i think both because depending of the competition i apply with some aspects of our companyso depending of the place depending of the environment and like at two three weeks ago wehad the municipality elections in brazil so all this all the all the citiesfor electing mayors over there and the brazilian governments they invited usto run aside the election with the government with fake candidates and everything but just for showing how it could be adigital election um because they are they likethey are trying to have a digital election for the next presidential elections in brazil we have electronic elections over therewe have machines we go to the machine and you vote but you can't see the voteyou don't know about the software running in the machine you have no ways for auditing themachine by yourself you need to trust on who said oh this machine is with the correctsoftware there's no votes register over there just need to trust and what we try to dowith blockchain you know and everyone knows we try to decentralize and uh like reduce the powerof the centralized governance of something and we we wrote a protocol for revotinglast year well in the end of 2018 beginning of last year for secretly voting on publicblockchains and i presented that protocol in the etc labs cohort we participatedin the first cohort of its labs and this protocol we were implementingit's open source for sure and we we are implementing that protocol on top of another protocol namedhelios because helios has millions of votes over there and it's open source then we arewe're improving helios with help that's our protocol to to be more transparent and usingblockchain to make people aware about how many votes are casted where are the votes they cansee the votes but they can't see the content of the vote that that's the most important part and asmart contract can calculate the result automatically andthe result will be encrypted then you have shared keys shared before the electionto decrypt just the result so all the votes they are protected and you can have even areceipt of voting with using zero knowledge proofs you can you can have a receipt to prove youvoted in that election and that's why the government is evaluating the two right now and let's we don'tknow governments are governments we know right and uh let's see we are and it takestime but it was a big step a huge step to us participating during the electionswith the government showing people you can vote digitally and securely yeah thoseLeaving Brazilopportunities i can't imagine come easily you know to work with uh to work with agovernment on the voting yeah well we'll make a joke butyeah you know probably my country they kicked me off the country and uh like i left brazilbecause the regulators and some traditional strong traditional institutions overthere they didn't like us because they saw us doing e-governance and reducing bureaucracy andmaking the corruptionexactly and then they tried everything to block myself and the companyfrom working then at some point the lawyers man we need to not like we have two newsfor you a good and a bad one what do you want first bad one the bad one islike the the vcs they don't understand what you are doingthe government and regulators they don't understand what you are doing they are trying to block youyou can't raise money in brazil and they will make your lifecrazy if you try to run your company over here okay so what's the good news the goodnews you need to leave the country what that was like good news that's the good news yeah yeah then theni left the country because of that you you bring up you know there's a lotWhy Estoniaof choices you have to make as a as a as a as a ceo as an entrepreneur period but there's even you know morecomplicated choices you have to do because you're in this new space this new technology space where the vcs don't understand where theregulations don't exist so you know i know enough about estoniato know why it was an easy choice do you want to share maybe like one or two of the reasons why estoniajust made so much sense yeah we did i i'm very pragmaticand objective i i i need to have the numbers it wasn't romantic you didn't go to estonia because you've always wanted toas a child and and and i i prepared a matrixwith costs taxes and regulatory environment andanother variable was future strategy for original mind okay then we studied many jurisdictionslike singapore hong kong portugal spain and finland sweden liechtensteinand switzerland and a lot of countries we we evaluated on a lot of countriesthen in the end of the thing we we had some leads from the south of europe becausethey are a mess they have the same hassle we have brokers in brazil italy spain portugal latin countries weknow how to mess up things with bureaucracy we know that thenokay going to europe makes sense our lawyers they told us probably don't want to go to u.s becauseof regulations it was ending of 2017. and so the ipo craze i see you sadlyit was totally crazy over there then they said probably us you don't want to go there right nowat least then estonia much cheaper than switzerland everyone will say no go toswitzerland because they have all the regulations everything will be fine over there but a hundred thousand swiss friendsjust to put this was the application right yeah a lot of money and we were runningout of money because we tried to run an ico the first brazilian iconot not under the radar we tried to do everything clear and uh for thefor everyone it was clear the media was saying about us talking about us the regulators wereaware about what we are trying to do and even with that they tried to block us a lotof brazilian startups they did icos but like some shadowssome something under the carpet and some then they did but we we we werevery clear on about what we were doing because original mai was very respected over there all thethe fox were on top of uh original mine then well much cheaper estoniagood regulation they have regulations for blockchain for cryptocurrencies for wallets foreverything for the financial system they understand about the technologythey have a joke over here saying oh probably satoshi nakamoto couldn't be estonian becauseit's not but they say that and well i tried dystonia and it was verygood to us very very good because right now the government like us they are promotingoriginal my and we are promoting the government so there's a like uhsymbiote yeah yeah and i've heard the same thing from other uh other friends that areWhy OriginalMyincorporating estonia especially the blockchain ones um it's night and day where you knowversus you know fighting your government your government's helping you there um so you know i i can understand you knowoutside of just the costs right because switzerland yeah it's super expensive but even even that help you know i don't knowthat you would have gotten as much help um and those are the important decisionsthat you have to make as a ceo right as as a and also as adapt developer so on the dap sideyou know i love i use original my as my favorite example for umetc because you know there are so many chains to choose fromthere's so many coins to choose from um when you're adapt developer you know i would i icompletely understand you know the story you mentioned i think you were presenting it was like2014 or 18 18 you're watching the the price of ethereum go up to like 400how what happened it was on on 2017 okay what happened uh i i starteduh i original i was working on bitcoin because we we we launched it before ethereum beingread in mainnet we launched it before it was 2015july beginning of july then ethereum was launched in the end of the monththen during the next year 2016 i was already like prototyping a projectfor collecting signatures on public petitions for an ngo in brazil so they were using ourinfrastructure of digital identity digital signature and authentication of documents to collect the signatures in draftybills draft tributes and and public petitions and i was prototyping on ethereumbecause on bitcoin uh the signatures on bitcoin could be very expensive and then i wasprototyping on ethereum because it's my contract it was easier and everything was fine thenthe doll happened i was prototyping the thing and it all happenedman the lawyers from the ngo they they said man imagineif i'm presenting a drafty bill signed by people to the congressman in the house ofrepresentatives and they say oh the media can be changedhow can i trust in in this petition if if the media for themthe media can can be changed manipulated because it was added today it can'thappen like it happened in 2016 but at that time it was like easy to change the thingright then classic happened and uh and i was very close to the to ethereumclassic because immutability was the thing to us everything must be immutable andtransparent then okay but i was not moving to ethereum class i moved it to bitcoin because the themeclass was too new it was impossible to know about the future of ethereum class at that timethen we private to to to bitcoin i went to consensus in 2017 to launchour app of digital signature in consensus i had a booth a very beautifulbooth over there presenting to everyone during the event bitcoin like thethe peak was five thousand dollars with five thousand dollars and signatures happening on bitcointhe cost per signature was sixty dollars our signaturemy people my team in brazil they were saying stop presenting please stop presenting we'llwe're going to be bankrupted tomorrow we stop doing that then oh mygod i went back to brazil i moved to ethereum firstthen a few months after ethereum ran to 500 and the fees wasalmost like uh bitcoin fees on bitcoin five thousand dollars and if theethereum 400 the fees were almost the same wow that was insane and because of crypto kittiescryptocurrency of course yeah then i had another problem with ethereum at the time i was sending thetransaction a second later the transaction was not there anymore it was not not like going to amain pool it was disappearing and many transactions people signing and sending the transactions andtransactions were disappearing oh my god what's happening what's happening and the price is increasingbecause cryptocurrency stop at the network we know that the hassle that was at a time then okay ethereum classwill have one year one one year and something i think it's secure they will have along life the immutability is his is their their main remote the thing solet's move to ethereum classic then i moved all the signatures digital identity authenticationto ethereum classic i had the ethereum and bitcoin yet working but like people are not usingbecause of the costs we present a table a pricing table to them oh you can register in other blockchains if youwant but they see the price of oh my god obviously i don't need to do anything because there's noBitcoin vs Ethereum Classici mean do i you know do i get like a a gold-plated signature if i do it onbitcoin versus ethereum classic like what what extra do i get if i do it on bitcoin versusethereum classic yeah the signatures they are not happening anymore in bitcoin i move it yeah it's too expensive right tooexpensive 2x imagine on 5 000 the signature was 60dollars yeah and now i can't imagine the price for a signature on bitcoinwell it's unrealable we can't do we just can't and even on ethereum if youif you try to be profitable to build a profitable profitable company right now even onethereum i think it's hard i think it's really really really hardto do it's really going to depend on how many transactions have to happen for each user ii don't think so because if you need someone need to pay the feesright someone needs to pay someone need to pay or you will observe the thing or your customer will pay when we are on amarket where like docusign because people compare us like a digital signature with electronic signatureand docusign is the biggest in the world and they say oh okay you have identityvalidation you have a digital certificate so it's a digital signature not electronic signature likeclicking on a link and magically is sign it then oh you have but when they compareto our competitors uh docusign is charging like five dollars per document man i can't be overthat obviously yeah as a startup because my benchmark is docusign right now then um i can't and it'simpossible on in other networks yeah so so the cost of the transaction is that the orCost of the transactionis that your number one criteria not my number one the immutability is mynumber one and the team and the healthy of the networkand then the prices because imagine if you sign a contract and itgoes to a court proceeding and then right and there's been a 51 attack ohyeah like that then one thing a lot of people they ask me about the 51attack that happened on the ethereum classic why i'm how i'm handling that that thing yeah in bitcoin back to2016 we had a malleability attack i don't know if you are if you remember malleability attack youwere able to change the transaction a few bits of the transaction and the the transaction id should beanother it changed it so all of the platforms we were monitoring the transaction i did to seeit was confirmed but the transaction changed and it waslike it was not there anymore and uh what we did after uh the well because ofmalleability attack that was solved with segwit but a lot of time afterwhat we did for mobility attack we did some monitors we built we built some monitors monitoring allthe transactions and the registrations oh wow if it was not therewe send it again after one hour 15 minutes then 30 minutes or one hour we havethose oracles working on original mine checking all the transactions all the time and it send it againso i have no customers because at that time customers were complaining where my transaction wherewhere is it because people who are coming to you they're early adopters at that point too right they understand theblockchain a bit too to to look for their confirmation so who understand that they came to mepersonally to ask to ask questions and but the problem were not the earlyadopters or the people like lawyers who doesn't understand the technology they justtrust on you and if you are saying it's registered for them it's registered right and theyare expecting a contract they sign the contract and the contract is like never confirmedthen it takes time and someone in the other side of the world iscomplaining what's happening this thing must be signed already signed it was a chaos tous then i solved the thing because i constructed that infrastructure for protecting usduring the malleability attack because it was not solved with the protocol sowhen it happened to the the attack the 51 attack on the ethereum classic fororiginal my it was not a problem at all because we were sending the transactions we are monitoring thetransactions all the time and sending it again if the transaction is not there so ifthe transaction was not there because of the chain was splitted or or likeuh replace it roll back yeah or go back or anything our system is sending the thing againand to us it was not a problem because original my because of very built because of your ability for bitcoinexactly exactly wow so yeah but iDoes it affect you moving forwardi you know does it does it you've built this already does it affectyou moving forward like you know let's say that you knew for acertainty that etc is going to get 51 attack every single day you wouldn'tstay there yeah because i just need to send the transaction againso if if if if etc is getting attacked constantly it doesn't bother you becauselook i'm doing my bit i'm rescinding eventually we're going to go back to ayou know hormone a stable you know okaywe know the 15 attack right now it's pretty expensive it's more expensive than before becauseof the forks they changed the protocol to make it more expensive but people were attacking i understandpeople are attacking people who were attacking ethereum classic they were doing like for fun becauseethereum classic is doing to the rest of the network something like i did in my country withtheir traditional institutions and i understand they try to block you and stop youworking using their tools available and but in their case they have like in brazilthey have unlimited power i i can't fight against that unlimitedpower and in case of ethereum class it's an economic power so people must spend moneyto attack ethereum classic so it's a limited thing it's not unlimited it's totally limitedand we know that people there are people with a lot of moneyburning bunny burning but we if you remember what what happened on on uh when bitcoin cashcame after the fork they tried to do the same with bitcoinyeah they did they burned a lot of bitcoin money so i'm trying to kill the chainand they didn't because it was impossible the chain was good a lot of people and miners were usingthe thing for good and they at at some point those guys the two guysthey oh we are just burning money and the thing will not stopi can imagine that they were just like sitting around the table and you know you know we're burning money man yeah ithink we should stop okay yeah and i imagine it was the same and now it's pretty expensivethan before for doing the same thing well yeah now for etc because of mess um it it can becomeWhat are your current blockchainsup to you know 34 40 times more expensive to do the exact same attack that you know had done uh have been donepreviously so you know i think the philosophy of attacking on the economics uh makes sense uh it's just like yousaid look this is money if they want you know there's only so much fun you can have burning money until it costs this muchto have fun right then it's no longer fun it becomes a business or somethingexactly it's very interesting so i i do want to set the understandingyou currently run original my across four blockchains exactly exactly now that's etc which arethe other three uh bitcoin ethereum and decrednow and only accurate yeah deek red on secret we built uhum it's like the open timestamps uh built by uh peter toddit's like the open timestamps where we are registering a merkle tree of americaroots of a miracle tree time after time on on decreed blockchaini am trying secret because i i did well secrets the thethe biggest thing on secret is the governance the chain governance they are trying to buildand i work with e-governance so it's interesting being close to the development of thatblockchain because of the governance the chain governance they are trying to build it'spretty different compared to other other uh other projects they have both like it'sa proof of stake we've mixed with a proof of work and because of the both the chain is harderto be attacked or changed and these takers they have some voiceover there it's pretty interesting the stickers having voice as well not just the the miners but the stakers as alsothen well i was i found it interesting interesting then i builtusing some tools like open time stamp open time stamps but fordoing a merkle tree of transactions so i'm doing it's pretty cheap to us for scaling up to us is better because ican register like millions of transactions one per hourso it's like one transaction per hour so it's faster and the decision to to bringdecred in to the to the to the group is again it goes to an economic one right it's likelook because i can do a million addresses in one transaction and it's dirt cheapyeah exactly that's the thing you get you get the opportunity to testWhat would you test nextso many different chains too i mean what would the next chain be if there was a fifth one you would add whowould you test next well i would like to test waves wavesokay as well waves i would like to test waves andi am resilient people are asking me for trying tron and i'm very resilienti i i don't know yet and i had a meeting with some guysa few few weeks ago man i don't remember the name of theblockchain but some guys from mit they built they built something over there veryinteresting and i want to test not on on my main netbut testing in my destination uh infrastructure for sure and litecoin i'm i'm a big fan oflitecoin litecoin on on our infrastructure as well the classics you've got the classicsyeah now again like so waves tron litecoin is the idea to test them primarily onTransaction costshey look at these transaction costs look how much i mean are you looking at at that level when you're looking at a new chain toevaluate i look to the price for sure the number of transactions per second it's veryimportant the size of the the hash hate it to me it's very important right nowwhy is that how sorry why is that important to you oh because of on a proof of work uhnetwork if you have bigger hash hate it's it's it's hard harder it's more securebecause it's interesting you know you've got this balance where you care about the security but at thesame time you've built the tool where hey you get attacked i don't doesn't matter i'll send the transactionagain yeah but what what i have working is working very wellfor introducing something new i don't need to worry and i have a lot of concerns and tests and things withfailure i need to maintain at least two nodes of each new network because i have the testnet nodes and the the mainnet nodes i run my nodes by myself on original my i don't rely on onthird-party nodes because well it's a blockchain we need to runour own loads i mean and the last thing you want is to explain to you know the government inbrazil well you know i was using uh infura and uh they had this uhdown time um i'm not sure who won the election let's start it again exactly imagine if it and and ifit happened almost at the same time of the election almost the same time and it was crazybecause during the election the systems of the government were hackedduring the force yeah the human resources thing they werehacked and uh even though the superior electoral tribunal something like thatelectoral court they were hacked during the elections and people went crazy and oh my god it'sit's related to the vote no it was not related to the vote but it was hacked yeah and all the systems are supposed tobe hacked and that's why i am reluctant like about even d5 yetbecause d5 right now they are doing almost the same we had with the icostwo years three years ago they are centralized yet they are saying oh it's very decentralized no it's notmost of them they are very very pre-centralized and many groups they are not playingfair games like probably we will see a lot of exit scams on a supposed different ohhow how they could do that they did it yeah because they have control of the thingand yeah rug pulls are are kind of uh part of defy you know you gotta expect it it's uh it's it's for gambling at theDeFimoment um but uh there are uses for d5 that we've seen are great uh you know urine finance is agood example as well they are the future i really believe it's the future i i really believeand they are growing they are not just mature enough but i think it's the futureyeah uh you know we do too at atc labs i don't know if you i've told you you can do rap dtc nowyeah i discovered oh they launched it a few weeks ago a couple of weeks ago probablythey announced that it was awesome running like a rapid etc oh my god i mean uh it itit it helps you know keep um keep up with the innovation um and i'mexcited to see what else we can do with it um i did want to go back to a few of thequestions because you know this is a very unique opportunity for me to speak with with adapt developer that has a veryestablished app and you understand the choices you need to make you know it doesn't sound likeyou get emotional you're like look let me look at the numbers i gotta be pragmatic this is why i'm moving here you know ilove you vitalik but you're too expensive for me today i'm going over here yeah so i you know how inyou know how involved do you need to be as a dap owner with the communities soyou know like etc at this moment you know there's alot happening um as far as uh the community constantly you know i'm sure you've heard of thingsbefore but is it is it important for you to be part of the day-to-dayor can you sit back look at the you know whenever there's a new hard fork or anew you know update coming you know what how you balance that what's more important toto kind of like look i've set up my infrastructure i trust or you know what these guys ineed to make sure i'm talking every day i i have my say and make sure you know theroad map is is is following what my business needswell i am on cyber security for like 25 years and i'm i'm working with open sourceprojects since 95 at least when i discovered linux for the first time soi have a long time working with like projects where communities arehandling the projects one thing i heard from a bank i'm just constructing thething of course please one thing i i heard from a bank they said we are not using uh open source projectsover here because i need to trust and rely my trust on many communities building the thinglike if you have a product running like node.js you need to trust not just in the the languagejavascript but you need to trust in the guy who is building that modelyou are using on your thing so instead of uh like like it's aboutliability if you are thinking about liability you need to trust in many places or you will concentrate yourliability in one company to be responsible about everything that happens banksthink like that like that in my case i'm trying to mitigatethis thing because it is a hassle like what happened to golanglast week the language had the problem and because of the problem all the nodesof ethereum classic or even ethereum or everything even different right everything could crashcould you could do some deny of service in everything because the language and itwas audited it was a people from google people from around the world they they were looking into the code andit was there the bug was there commented coming to us there saying it must runlike this and the line after was different i don't know why nobody knows why and itwas different so i'm trying to mitigate this thing i look i i take i take a look into the newsall the time i am in uh i'm inside all the community i'm just just notpretty active in the community because i have a lot of things to do and as a security guy i was always my wholelife the guy behind the curtains in the backstagemaking the thing work and original my and my previous company where i was ceoas well it it was my first like first experience is being the ceoi i need to be in front of the cameras i need to talk to people i and talking to people is not the thing ido very well you're doing great i have no idea what you're talking about i think you have your own interview showbox ididn't act classes i i direct classes well i suppose they were worth it i want the name of theteacher to work it it's working then uh yeah i prefer many times to be behind thescenes just looking around feeling the environmentto understand what is happening so i am in each community i am on decreed community i am not ethereumclassic communities i follow everything all the phone all the the developers and everyone and the mainpeople like from the community because probably they will they will like cry first i don't knowsomething they will say something first and uh yeah but i'm not very activesaying or promoting things over there i'm just looking feeling the environment thetemperature of the things to understand what's the moment to to do some actionbecause it's hard as i said four blockchains at least eight nodes in myinfrastructure at least for ethereum class classic it's the boat i have because of a lot of transactionsi have balancers i have balancers two and behind of the balancers two of each node what's like ethereum classicsix machine is just for ethereum classic and that's because most of the transactions happen thereexactly exactly and it must be secured in the infrastructure side i i myinfrastructure must be bold to to have and receive all thetransactions for my customers because as i said many lawyers are using the tool and thething is going to the core court proceedings and if all your customers could[Music] you have to perfectly that's the thing my customers will tell meokay i um this has been great we need to talk more often uh especially you know rightETC Treasurynow on the hash rate side you know with etc one of my main focuses has beengetting hash rate up getting hash rate up you know as soon as i i joined the the labs i've been speaking to as manyminers as i can kind of understanding their potent you know their issues what they look at you know understandunderstanding profitability again um because everybody approaching thisapproaches us as a business you know there's there's passion we're passionate about what we're doing especially what you doi mean dude you know you're helping change the world but um i did want to ask so there's this oneuh idea now being floated in ethereum classic about a treasury where20 of minor rewards could go towards development teams yeah is this somethingthat you know changes the way you would look at etcno definitely and i'll tell you why dick red is using treasury for a longtime and the problem with the treasury is in the very beginning where the rulesare not very clear and people are thinking just a small group who receives the money for doing anythingin that case in case of d credit it's very clear the treasury is going to the to the developersand the proposals the way they are approving the proposals and paying the guys is i can'tsay like just like bitcoin but it feels like it it feels like that butthey are doing for a long time and it's working and i think forhaving good developers good developers on your thing they must be rewarded we are passionateabout what we are doing but passion don't pay the billsin the end it's true we we have a house arranged for paying our car oursomething our infrastructure our computer that breaks some time and yeah havingsomething for the developers could make the development and the progress of thethe chain more healthy i really believe in that in the otherside it must be discussed and it can't be in the hands of a few people that'sthe thing if you have ways for and it's not built in ethereum classic yet but i reallybelieve they will because it's needed building a very transparent way for approvingthe proposals and the development on on on ethereum classic and the money comingto the developers who had the proposals approved it would be more transparent and people whostopped crying i really believe in that yeah so i think um we need to invite you to to help out onthe governance side i mean it sounds like you've got some great ideas if you had any timethat would be fantastic what i'm going to do is i'm going to send you some of the stuff that we've already you knowgot in the works uh but it's it's i'm trying to be involved on that it could be interesting yeahi think so especially considering that you know not only do you understand governance mechanicsum as as you're building them for your product but you also understand themfrom an ecosystem like decred where you know it seems that you're a fan of the way they've done that so you know having you incorporated indiscussions i think is very important uh anybody watching you know you definitely should check outuh the products uh original mai has i mean they're winning every single award under the sun and not to mentionthe fact that if you have any questions or comments to give about you know governance about some of the blockchain decisions you have to realize this isone of the top ceos of adapt around okay so allison thank you so much for the timetoday um i'm gonna put some of your links also in the information if anybody wants to reach out to youor if uh you know if there's something you think that they could learn from um and uh yeahdude thank you so much for the time thank you thank you for the invitation thank you thank you foryour time it was a great talk i think it was a great chat and uh yeahwell people can reach me in on all the networks like twitter telegram instagram iyeah i i'm not i'm there look at this guy he doesn't even know how to tell you hejust wants he wants to help yeah yeah that's the thing if they call me i will answer and helpon over there so that's the thing i'm reachable i'm reachable you're the best brother i appreciate ittake it easy see you thank you very much